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OC Transpo/STO Fan

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OC Transpo/STO Fan last won the day on July 5

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  1. I'm confused by what you're asking, could you please elaborate? I'm assuming it's for the retirements? If so, it was posted on the CPTDB last night.
  2. Unfortunately, all remaining 77 or so hybrids have now been pulled off the road. I will miss them! The Orion era at OC Transpo has officially ended. These buses had some high and low points which I will discuss below. Firstly, these buses were pleasant to ride. Seats were comfortable, rear doors opened quickly, relatively spacious, and good air conditioning. They sounded great on takeoff and I liked the design (I like the original generation Orion VIIs better), even if it did seem a bit "cheap" to me. I'd say that these looked better than the Inveros. Despite all this, I would personally prefer to ride the artics or Inveros over these in spite of their flaws. Unfortunately, the Orion VIIs had hybrid drivetrains (EPA 2007 ISB/HybriDrive) which didn't have much fuel savings at all over diesel buses. According to one of @Shane's posts in the retirement and rebuilds thread, it was found that there was only a 10%-15% fuel cost savings compared to the city's projected 35% savings. It's better than nothing, but it wasn't up to the city's expectations. I also read somewhere that the hybrids put OC in a $1 million fuel deficit in 2011. Part of this was due to OC treating them like any other bus and putting these on lots of routes, instead of keeping them on stop-and-go routes such as the 14/53 and the 18 for example. I think that if OC were to use these buses only on local stop-and-go routes and only use them on other routes as a last resort, it would have went at least slightly better. Their retirement was bound to happen when OC Transpo announced in 2017 that due to the upcoming LRT, they would need 170-180 less buses on the road. As there were 177 hybrids, the writing was basically on the wall for them from that point on. They were also due for rebuilds shortly afterwards. Their batteries also needed to be replaced at some point (not to mention the lesser savings than was expected), so those were the main reasons for retirement. OC Transpo kept all these hybrids active until November 2019 (not counting buses that were damaged in accidents or fires) and they started retiring them shortly afterwards until now. OC Transpo did actually contemplate converting five buses into diesels (with EPA 2010 ISL9 engines compared to the EPA 2007 ISBs that were in there) back in 2012-2013 to see how they would perform, but they never ended up going ahead with the project. Overall, I'd say that these are good buses, but had they not been hybrid, they would have ranked higher. They've had a good run (even if the plan to save costs on fuel wasn't very successful) over the past 11-12 years and the Orion era is now history. Despite that, I'm sure many bus fans will remember OC's experience with hybrid buses for many years to come. Article if anyone wants to read more about their experience with the hybrid buses: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/oc-transpo-not-pursuing-new-green-bus-technology-as-hybrid-program-runs-out-of-gas/wcm/6b5f093f-251f-4adb-a6d7-eb668fe7fc8c/amp/
  3. Some bad news. ALL remaining hybrids as of August 1 are now parked and won't see service again. This comes from user Enviro_1203 on the CPTDB forum. It is my understanding that they will be transferred to St. Laurent from Merivale and Pinecrest garages for retirement. This marks the end of the Orion era, folks. I'll really miss these buses. Had they been diesel, they would have lasted longer. I recall seeing my very first one in early 2009 and being intrigued as to what that bus was because it was brand new at the time.
  4. Not my observations (this comes from CPTDB): The new double deckers now come with six American Seating BC-55 seats in the priority seating area instead of the older American Seating Vision seats. However, the rest of the seats remain unchanged as far as I know. A minor change, but these new buses have defroster vents for all windows, both top and bottom deck, likely in response to an issue with condensation with 8001-8075 back when they were new. And finally, the new buses come with a second NSAS screen installed on the bottom deck past the staircase.
  5. I suspect that the rebuilt Inveros (which 4202 is not by the way) will last a few more years, possibly at least three (so 2023 or around that range). As for unrebuilt Inveros, I think they'll continue to retire small batches at a time when new buses come in (they haven't been doing much of that since March). I suspect that the entirety of those will be pulled off by late 2021. We have 133 left unrebuilt (and 62 rebuilt units), so if we get another batch of LFSs in the future (it hasn't been talked about yet), then most if not all (excluding rebuilds) will likely retire at that point. Correction about my above post: Nine Inveros were retired in March and four were retired in May.
  6. I'm surprised it's down to a small handful this quickly. The Orion era is coming to an end. I still maintain that OC probably should have gone with ISL engines and Allison transmissions... I'll miss them. By the way, for anyone looking for an update on the Inveros, there were 13 more of them retired this year, in March specifically. All credit goes to user Enviro_1203 on the CPTDB forum. To recap, here's the number of Inveros retired from each batch (this comes from the CPTDB wiki): 4201-4202: only 4202 is active 4203-4273: 4204-4207, 4209, 4211-4216, 4219, 4220, 4223-4225, 4228, 4230-4235, 4237, 4239, 4240, 4243-4246, 4249-4255, 4261, 4263, 4267-4269, 4271 4274-4309: 4276, 4278, 4280, 4285-4287, 4289-4290, 4294, 4300, 4303, 4305, 4307-4309 4310-4439: 4310, 4315-4319, 4325-4328, 4331, 4337-4339, 4344, 4346, 4349, 4352-4354, 4356, 4360, 4363-4365, 4367-4369, 4371, 4373, 4375-4379, 4381, 4382, 4385, 4385, 4388-4390, 4394, 4395, 4414, 4417, 4431, 4434, 4439 4440-4526: 4446, 4450, 4464-4468, 4473, 4475, 4484, 4485, 4488, 4491, 4492, 4494, 4498, 4505, 4512, 4513, 4515, 4517, 4519, 4520, 4522
  7. That would have been 7615. I don't know how much this fishbowl list from 2003 will help (credit goes to user MCIBUS on the CPTDB forum), but here it is anyway: According to this list, there were nine 76xx buses out of 53, 25 77xx buses out of 56, 9 17xx buses out of 12 (although they say 10...), 44 out of 58 78xx buses active, 26 79xx buses out of 30, and all the 80xx buses and up. This means that 44 76xx buses, 31 77xx buses, 14 78xx buses, and four 79xx buses were retired before 2003. I've heard that they started retiring buses from the 76xx-79xx batches in 2004 to make room for new Invero buses. About 21 of the 79xx were sold or otherwise retired in May-July 2004 to make room for Inveros (specifically 4212-4231). Same goes for eleven of the 78xx which were pulled off in 2004 to make room for 4201-4211.
  8. I found a city of Ottawa document with a transit bus inventory list as of Dec. 31, 2005 if anyone's interested. For Orion Vs, 26 out of 28 1992s remained active (9238 was one of the first retirements as I had suspected, not sure of the other one). There were 18 out of 25 1991 Vs active (four retired being 9134, 9137, 9138, 9144, not sure about the other three) It looks like they rapidly retired the 1991s because according to a post from April 2006 by user JCL on the CPTDB forum, 9126, 9128, 9143 were the only ones active. A few slight inaccuracies are present in the list. For example, the 1987 Classics had a bit more than only 14 active at the time. The 1981 New Looks definitely had 21 (not 20) active until April 1, 2006 (according to user ikarus3737 on the old CPTDB forum back in 2006). Also note that 8918's retirement (in Oct 2005) isn't taken into account (it should say 59 active instead of 60 active for the 1989 MCIs).
  9. Not able to find a photo, but I did find some more details about 4001. It's the only VI that originally didn't have A/C when production when finished (all future ones did). Instead, it was decided that all future 139 buses would have A/C due to a policy change at the time (around late 1998-early 1999) and 4001 was then retrofitted. It was too late to retrofit the Orion Vs by then as they were already finished and it would take major modifications. I don't even think the Sutrak A/C was still available by then, especially for Orion Vs (Our 1992 Vs were the only Orion Vs produced to ever have Sutrak A/C, OC Transpo specified it) 4001 also originally had one extra seat (34 compared to 33 back when it had the red seats) but it later became like the other VIs and lost the extra seat when it switched to blue seats.
  10. Also forgot to add that 9250 was also active as of May 21, 2006 but I do not have info on when it retired.
  11. There was a report on the old CPTDB of someone seeing an unrepainted Orion V in February 2006 (he didn't give a fleet number though), so we know that at least one survived until then. I'll give you retirement dates for some Orion Vs that I know of. I'm currently trying to track down the retirements in 2005 and early 2006 as I know what retired in May 2006 and on: 15 Orion V buses remaining in total as of May 21, 2006 (9126, 9128, 9233-9236, 9242, 9244, 9245, 9249, 9252, 9255-9258) 9242, 49, 55, 57 retired May 23, 2006 9233, 9234, 9258 were retired between April 2007 and June 2007. 9244 retired in July 2006. And of course, 9236 retired in July 2007. Not sure of exact retirement dates for 9235, 9245, 9252, or 9256. 9143 was retired sometime between April 18, 2006 and May 21, 2006. I'll make a later update when I get info for earlier retirements!
  12. 8546 stuck around until April 2007. You're correct about 8553! 8553 got a rebuild in early 2002, while 8546 got a full rebuild around late 2003 if I recall correctly! It wouldn't have made sense for it to retire in 2005 unless it got into a major enough accident. ?
  13. 6380, 6393, and 6402 are back in service. The list of all rebuilds to date is as follows: 6365, 6366, 6374, 6380, 6381, 6385, 6393, 6402
  14. Right now, 4683-4775 are all in service with the exception of 4736 which was delivered the other day.
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