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13 hours ago, occheetos said:

The catch is that MOOSE's primary goal is to sell houses (and other buildings) around those stations. That's why they're built so out of the way, so that they can build around them. Their goal isn't to serve existing people unless they "subscribe" to the service.

Exactly.  MOOSE realizes that they can't recover their costs from fares, so instead they are making their money on real-estate commissions (both on the initial sale and on every resale within their sponsored neighbourhood).    Since transporting passengers costs money, they want to minimize the number of freeloaders who haven't paid real-estate commissions.

13 hours ago, occheetos said:

The only problem with buses is that they aren't very attractive (compared to trains), and once they reach the city they have to deal with traffic.

True, though the city is planning on having rural bus riders transfer to the confederation line at the closest station.  It does mean an extra transfer, but at least the bus can stop closer to the rider's residence.  Trains do have a psychological advantage, but a trains tends to be more expensive to operate than a bus, so you need reduce the number of trains by  having each one transport more passengers to cover  those costs.  If you can't even fill a bus, it becomes a more expensive option.

13 hours ago, occheetos said:

While Bayview isn't really downtown, it has sufficient transit connections to get people where they need to go with ease.

True, but the extra transfer will make it less competitive than the Transitway/LRT for Barrhaven and Kanata.  As discussed on the skyscraper forum, it will be close for Barrhaven (though I would still give OC Transpo the edge), but for Kanata, the long, circuitous route to Bayview by existing rail corridors will make it slower than with Bus/LRT.

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To me if Moose is admitting that the stations are in inconvenient locations, that says everything. Poor plan acknowledged right from the start. If your plan is to build something and you can't even bu

To me personally, this is complete nonsense, in fact with even less of a chance and less of an in depth look of the system then MOOSE rail. He would cancel the Stage 2 of LRT, and make a whole boat lo

Lots of questions indeed on this "Campaign Pitch". If this came to pass, it would seriously reduce the appeal and extent of LRT in Ottawa. I am in no way against other people's opinions or positions o

On 8/28/2018 at 6:00 PM, Roger1818 said:

I haven't heard any thing from Moose in quite a while, so I assume it is dead.

As for making Bayview a regional rail  hub, I am a little confused by that idea.  VIA already provides a hybrid between inter-city rail and regional rail service to Ottawa and those trains go to Tremblay.  If there was demand for Regional rail to towns in  other directions (which I don't think there is without a big city at the other end of the line), why wouldn't  you want those trains to also go to Tremblay?

As for commuter rail, like Moose was proposing, the populations in Ottawa drop off so sharply past the near suburbs of Kanata, Orleans and Barrhaven, that the  demand  wouldn't justify the cost.   Commuter buses make much more sense for those communities.  Personally I would like to see GO Transit come to Ottawa and offer GO Buses, but I am not holding  my breath on that ever happening.

Tremblay is an option, however, Bayview is closer to the core. I also would really hesitate to call what Via Provides Regional Service its more of a side effect add on on existing service.

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15 hours ago, reecemartin said:

Tremblay is an option, however, Bayview is closer to the core. I also would really hesitate to call what Via Provides Regional Service its more of a side effect add on on existing service.

Bayview is a little closer to the core, but if we are going spend the money to move Tremblay station, I would suggest moving it back downtown.

As I said, it is a hybrid between Inter-city and Regional rail service.  If VIA does its HFR program, they will likely provide Regional Rail service to Kingston.  They might also split the service to Montreal to provide both Inter-city and regional services.  I don't see any other nearby cities providing an anchor for regional service to Ottawa.

Also, Greyhound would suffer if we cut into their regional services and they would likely pull out of Ottawa like they are doing in Western Canada.

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Interesting plan but it doesn't mention what would happen to the Stage 2 LRT plans, especially the Trillium Line expansion and the current service offered. Going by the plan, it could mean loosing Carling and Mooney's Bay stations, let alone the new stops towards south Ottawa and the Airport spur.

I think the plan calls for too few stops. It's mostly the MOOSE plan if you compare but less stops after exiting the city, and less distance outside reached.

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To me personally, this is complete nonsense, in fact with even less of a chance and less of an in depth look of the system then MOOSE rail. He would cancel the Stage 2 of LRT, and make a whole boat load of other decisions which do not make any sense financially. Among them, cancel the retirement of the hybrids which shows me, again, he or the person who wrote it clearly does not understand why the city is getting rid of them, not to meantion the order has already been placed for the new busses.

Here is an article detailing this whole attempt to grab some votes from unknowing voters: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/ottawasun.com/news/local-news/reevely-if-ottawa-wants-a-big-shift-to-transit-clive-doucet-has-a-plan-for-it/wcm/75a9e122-53ff-4bc8-aea2-935062f4bfb3/amp

-Charlie

Side note, to add the ridiculousness of it, let me show you all a quote from the article:

Doucet’s worried that the tunnel under downtown and the Rideau Canal will leak, that transfers will be inefficient, that the line won’t draw the riders it’s supposed to. But we should see within a couple of months of its opening — now due in November — whether we should press on.”

(I put that part in bold, to maginify the absurdity of his “Transportation” policy. Let’s cancel a transport project a couple months away from opening, that certainly makes perfect sense!)

 

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Lots of questions indeed on this "Campaign Pitch". If this came to pass, it would seriously reduce the appeal and extent of LRT in Ottawa. I am in no way against other people's opinions or positions on stuff but this is fairly extreme, and would undo alot of the momentum and progress we are having with the LRT. 

And using false facts about the tunnel leaking and all that is fairly low.

Why jeopardize everything with this when Stage2 funding is pretty much confirmed at all needed levels and the current plan is sound.

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2 hours ago, Charlie said:

Among them, cancel the retirement of the hybrids which shows me, again, he or the person who wrote it clearly does not understand why the city is getting rid of them, not to meantion the order has already been placed for the new busses.

The retirement of the Hybrid buses is going to cause an overall reduction in the size of OC Transpo's fleet. The 82 new buses are being ordered to replace 82 other buses. What he wants to do is increase service on most/all bus routes, which would require the larger fleet size that includes the hybrids.

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But the retirement of the hybrids is not just because of the LRT, and mainly is not. The batteries in the hybrids are reaching the end of their lives, and would need very expensive refurbishments, at a cost comporable to just buying new diesel busses. This is why the Hybrids are being retired.

-Charlie

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They should be buying battery-electric buses like Montreal and Toronto are doing IMO. The technology is ready and available. Heck, Nova (the company that makes the replacement diesel buses) even offers a battery-electric version!

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Obviously I am a big supporter of the current LRT and the Stage2LRT. Whether Clive Doucet waits to implement Stage2 or does not do it all together, currently everything is in place and aligned for it to happen. We should know the construction consortium in the coming months who will build it and construction would start shortly after. The Belfast Yards are already being expanded to accommodate the additional trains and assembly.

How can Stage 1 LRT not work? Why would there be water leaking? (Of course over time some water will find its way in, as it does in Montreal, Toronto and pretty much everywhere else, but it will be dealt with successfully like everywhere else). But why wouldn't the LRT work? The bus transitway worked for many many years, and only recently it has reached capacity in the downtown core with all the traffic lights, intersections, and the number of buses needed. The LRT is a replacement for the existing bus service, along pretty much the same route, with a bypass from the downtown traffic by moving underground.

Seriously if it doesn't work, then what's the alternative? More buses, or a second downtown transitway going down more traffic light filled streets?

Very short sighted, no costing plan or estimate released. What kind of announcement is it to pitch an idea with no cost attached, no timeline, and plenty of IFs for the currently built system and future expansion.

Final thought, happy Clive Doucet thinks it's more important to build a train service to Lorrain and Chelsea in Gatineau (not even Ottawa), than better service to the south and the Airport, or even finish what we started. If Gatineau and their city council can't get on board with better interprovincial transit integration or service, then why is it Ottawa that would do the heavy lifting and build it for them , especially over improving Ottawa's transit as a priority. This plan has no focus other than to try to please everyone else. Why are we going to build for other municipalities. Again if Smith Falls, Arnprior and the others want this kind of service, they should work with Ottawa to get it, not Ottawa reaching out and offering it to them.

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Scary that things could go completely sideways with this new proposal or plan. After the original plan from 2008 or whenever was cancelled, it took years to get things going again, and now this, someone else who wants to derail the progress currently being made.

I guess what they say is true. There will always be someone unhappy and there will always be someone ready to turn things upside down to appeal to voters votes, regardless of what is really being offered.

I like the point above that Shane made, why serve Gatineau? Let Gatineau get their stuff together, it isn't Ottawa's job. Plus they just pitched their own LRT plans that would connect to Bayview and use the Prince of Wales bridge theoretically.

So in that sense, Clive Doucet is saying FU to Gatineau and their plans, and FU to Ottawa tax payers for saying lets build something to another province that most will not use, nor should be held responsible to pay for.

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