14 hours ago, Todd said:

Very late to the conversation, but better late than never! 

South Keys - the GeoOttawa data isn't entirely up-to-date.  The plan is for a three platform station with the spur now operating completely independently of the main line so that operational issues on one won't cross over to the other. GeoOttawa hasn't been updated because the exact details on how to design that are being left up to contract bidders - but the ability to run through trains to the airport at some point is apparently a requirement. 

Hopefully with the new council now getting rolling we will see some major movement on the Stage 2 contracts soon and then really get a sense of how this will work. 

Glad to have found the site!

Good Day to you, and welcome !

Interesting info..... do you have any document links, or is it only what you have picked up in 'overheards' (not that that is a bad thing - lots comes up that way !).

Thx.

4 hours ago, PHrenetic said:

Good Day to you, and welcome !

Interesting info..... do you have any document links, or is it only what you have picked up in 'overheards' (not that that is a bad thing - lots comes up that way !).

Thx.

I'm a big fan of the 'overheards' - always good nuggets of info discovered that way! haha

Unfortunately there isn't a lot of printed documentation available yet. I had a conference call with the team from the rail office where I got to go over a few of the technical details with them. During the contract bidding phase they haven't been updating the public facing information as frequently as they're giving the bidders some flexibility in the layout and design of the line to see if any creative options the city hadn't thought of come forward. So that being said, while the isolated spur with a three platform South Keys is the current plan it could change yet again.

My biggest beef with the current South Keys designs is that the bus bays will be outside the fare paid zone, while they are inside the zone at Greenboro. With the two stations being so close together, they really should be run the same way for passengers. Hopefully that gets cleaned up a little in the detailed design phase. Hopefully. 

Welcome to the site Todd.

Very interesting details. It would make more sense that they allow the Airport Spur shuttle to continue to Bayview to connect to the main Confederation Line. Happy to see that they are at least open or allowing the possibility of making it technically possible, whether it operates like that or not.

That said, with the configuration of the tracks and necessity of passing tracks to maintain operations, adding a LINT train to pass through from the airport to Bayview could complicate and affect schedules and capacity on the main Trillium line. And unless something has changed, the airport spur needs to use the LINTs due to the platform length.

Good news in any case though, I like the idea of three platforms better than two and the pocket track. Would be more efficient and easier flow for passengers.

I wonder how transferring to or from the airport will work in practice. Hopefully it's convenient enough. I wonder how through-trains would work too. The line isn't going to have the capacity to run extra trains on the mainline that then branch off to the airport and the platforms on the airport spur are too short for the longer FLIRTs (of course that may have changed too).

I guess this is why geoOttawa hasn't been updated with the Limebank extension either?

Actually, wild idea: Since they're apparently going to use coupled LINTs, what if the two LINTs decouple at South Keys with one unit heading to Limebank and the other to the Airport? And then once the single LINT unit returns from Limebank it recouples with one of the units that went to the Airport and the coupled train proceeds on to Bayview? In practice it's probably a horrible idea, but funny to think about!

42 minutes ago, occheetos said:

Actually, wild idea: Since they're apparently going to use coupled LINTs, what if the two LINTs decouple at South Keys with one unit heading to Limebank and the other to the Airport? And then once the single LINT unit returns from Limebank it recouples with one of the units that went to the Airport and the coupled train proceeds on to Bayview? In practice it's probably a horrible idea, but funny to think about!

I was in Munich last summer and their S-Bahn line S1 to the Airport works that way.  Two short trains couple at Neufahrn and continue the rest of the way downtown.  I remember wondering why there was such a long wait at Neufahrn and then later I noticed the train was longer than when I boarded.

They have 7 lines sharing one tunnel downtown.  It made waiting for the train you wanted quite long despite trains arriving very frequently.

Previously it was mentioned that trains would run between Bayview and Limebank to make up the main line. A spur line would operate between South Keys and the Airport. 

Why not operate it like it will be on the Confederation Line from Lincoln Fields onward. Where one train continues to Moodie and another continues to Baseline, alternating. 

The same could theoretically be done on the Trillium. With one continuing past Siuth Keys to Linebank and the other to the Airport. Even every third train to Airport as it won’t require high frequency. Of course Airport station platform length would play into this and then this solution would affect train length and capacity for the airport train when it would hit the main line. 

Hooefully a more extensive solution to the main line from the airport will be developed. Eager to see what they come up with. 

10 minutes ago, Shane said:

Why not operate it like it will be on the Confederation Line from Lincoln Fields onward. Where one train continues to Moodie and another continues to Baseline, alternating. 

Probably because of mainly timing. Currently each stop has a 12 minute wait between trains. And assuming that doesn't change in any way (higher or lower) then below the split we'd have to wait 24 minutes between trains (or something different if say only one every 3 trains goes to the airport).  I think the current plan is to have the airport spur still have that 12 minute frequency to match up with the main line, and time it so that trains get to the station together (since the airport is the end, and depending on how long it takes to get to the airport from south keys, you can have the spur train idle there for a couple minutes longer than main line ones to allow transfers more easily).

 

Edit: to add, i believe they're thinking like this because of how they plan to do the split on the C-line after a certain time of day. When they'll  be haviong a 15 minute frequency there won't be interlining, but rather a transfer for one end of the line, to keep at minimum a 15 minute frequency at all times (or at least not having the train system go down to 30 minutes per train below the split). I also believe that Lincoln fields is going to be having 3 platforms because of this.

7 hours ago, corynv said:

Probably because of mainly timing. Currently each stop has a 12 minute wait between trains. And assuming that doesn't change in any way (higher or lower) then below the split we'd have to wait 24 minutes between trains (or something different if say only one every 3 trains goes to the airport).  I think the current plan is to have the airport spur still have that 12 minute frequency to match up with the main line, and time it so that trains get to the station together (since the airport is the end, and depending on how long it takes to get to the airport from south keys, you can have the spur train idle there for a couple minutes longer than main line ones to allow transfers more easily).

 

Edit: to add, i believe they're thinking like this because of how they plan to do the split on the C-line after a certain time of day. When they'll  be haviong a 15 minute frequency there won't be interlining, but rather a transfer for one end of the line, to keep at minimum a 15 minute frequency at all times (or at least not having the train system go down to 30 minutes per train below the split). I also believe that Lincoln fields is going to be having 3 platforms because of this.

Good Day.

Just shy a hole-in-one. Last operational plans I saw was Lincoln Fields with 3 tracks and 2 platforms, interlaced. The shuttle would use the centre track.

This is where I cannot really see South Keys with 3 platforms - as mentioned above, that would be a real pain for ease-of-transfer. Given the restricted space, IMO better is a center platform with tracks either side, and the shuttle pocket track just north, as planned. Yes, the (IMO extremely improbable) chance of an incident at South Keys, or the line switches for the spur 1.5 km south would interfere with the Mainline (Bayshore to Limebank), but any incidents there would likely be of or involve the Mainline anyway, so......same operational risks as Lincoln Fields. Just My Opinion.

Stage 2 West Stations

I pulled these from the technical documents.

 

Westboro Station

 

Dominion Station

 

Cleary Station

 

New Orchard Station

 

Lincoln Fields Station

 

Iris Station

 

Baseline Station

 

Queensview Station (Ikea)

 

Pinecrest Station

 

Bayshore Station

 

Moodie Station

Stage 2 East Stations

 

Montreal Road Station

 

Jeanne d'Arc Station

 

Orleans Boulevard Station

 

Place d'Orleans

 

Trim Road Station

Stage 2 South

 

Bayview (gets a new pedestrian walkway)

 

Gladstone Station

 

Walkley Station

 

South Keys Station (transfer point to Airport Link)

 

Leitrim Station

 

Bowesville Station

 

Limebank Station

 

Uplands Station (EY Centre)

 

Airport Station

Thank you Mike for sharing all of the station photos with us. I wasn't expecting this much information to come out today at the Technical Briefing but definitely I am happy it did. The airport station will definitely be something to see in person once completed. From the photo, it will come off even better than I was thinking.

Limebank looks nice but I am not fond of the way they end the track. Doesn't leave much option for being realized without significant modifications of any extension beyond this station. Having said that, any possible extension would no doubt be in the very distant future.

Another note, South Keys will have a centre platform. Not confirmed in the documents shared by the city if there will still be the pocket track for the airport link, without I am not sure how they would turn the train around and not impact the main line service. It will be interesting to see it in operation as the schedules will have to work just right to not have trains in the wrong position at the wrong time to halt service.

I'm not sure about Limebank either, it's going to be a terminus for quite some time but the Vimy Memorial Bridge is designed to have LRT on it so presumably they will connect it up with a Barhaven extension. My guess is whenever they decide to make it twin track electric.

The render of South Keys only shows two tracks so I'm not sure if the plan changed or if they will have crossover tracks and passing on the mainline somewhere other than the station, Greenboro maybe? They could have the airport link train parked there and use the station as a 1 track station for the main line I suppose. I was expecting to see three tracks though.

For the airport I was expecting it to be on the mid-level but maybe it has to be departures level for height reasons? It's more or less what they described to me via email after the public consultations I went to, the original plan at the consultations was to have it in front of the parkade and then have people cross the three lanes of traffic. I told them that was a terrible idea, especially in the winter so I'm glad they were able to change the design. I was also expecting to see platform on both sides for easier boarding but I guess that didn't make the cut. It's funny how the render has the airport apron as a forrest though lol.

I'm most excited about Walkley, that'll be my local station.

Place d'Orleans has an unexpected and new second elevated walkway, I wonder what that's about? It seems a bit redundant.

It's nice to see a pedestrian walkway at Queensview go pretty much right up to the corner where you turn to go in to the back of Ikea so that's cool.

Baseline is already built pretty much underneath the new Algonquin building, they'll just need to make the entrances and platforms but the space is already built and set aside (under the grass roof/plaza part).

The rest are pretty much as expected, the LRTification of Transitway Stations.

15 hours ago, Mike said:

I'm not sure about Limebank either, it's going to be a terminus for quite some time but the Vimy Memorial Bridge is designed to have LRT on it so presumably they will connect it up with a Barhaven extension. My guess is whenever they decide to make it twin track electric.

The render of South Keys only shows two tracks so I'm not sure if the plan changed or if they will have crossover tracks and passing on the mainline somewhere other than the station, Greenboro maybe? They could have the airport link train parked there and use the station as a 1 track station for the main line I suppose. I was expecting to see three tracks though.

For the airport I was expecting it to be on the mid-level but maybe it has to be departures level for height reasons? It's more or less what they described to me via email after the public consultations I went to, the original plan at the consultations was to have it in front of the parkade and then have people cross the three lanes of traffic. I told them that was a terrible idea, especially in the winter so I'm glad they were able to change the design. I was also expecting to see platform on both sides for easier boarding but I guess that didn't make the cut. It's funny how the render has the airport apron as a forrest though lol.

I'm most excited about Walkley, that'll be my local station.

Place d'Orleans has an unexpected and new second elevated walkway, I wonder what that's about? It seems a bit redundant.

It's nice to see a pedestrian walkway at Queensview go pretty much right up to the corner where you turn to go in to the back of Ikea so that's cool.

Baseline is already built pretty much underneath the new Algonquin building, they'll just need to make the entrances and platforms but the space is already built and set aside (under the grass roof/plaza part).

The rest are pretty much as expected, the LRTification of Transitway Stations.

One bridge is in fare paid on is outside of fare paid.

17 hours ago, Shane said:

Thank you Mike for sharing all of the station photos with us. I wasn't expecting this much information to come out today at the Technical Briefing but definitely I am happy it did. The airport station will definitely be something to see in person once completed. From the photo, it will come off even better than I was thinking.

Limebank looks nice but I am not fond of the way they end the track. Doesn't leave much option for being realized without significant modifications of any extension beyond this station. Having said that, any possible extension would no doubt be in the very distant future.

Another note, South Keys will have a centre platform. Not confirmed in the documents shared by the city if there will still be the pocket track for the airport link, without I am not sure how they would turn the train around and not impact the main line service. It will be interesting to see it in operation as the schedules will have to work just right to not have trains in the wrong position at the wrong time to halt service.

Are you planning on adding the stage 2 stuff to stations etc? Amazing to see the speed with which this is happening.

20 hours ago, reecemartin said:

Are you planning on adding the stage 2 stuff to stations etc? Amazing to see the speed with which this is happening.

There are even more renders available now. The city released a slideshow with lots of pics so I've been harvesting those too. There are now at least a couple of pics for each station including the new Maintenance and Storage Facilities.

I think "The Stations" section should probably be updated to include Stage 2 stations now since construction will start on Stage 2 in the next couple of months.